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Angelqueen.org
For
Purity and Tradition in Catholicism
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Assisi-Contrast:
Lefebvre and Benedict XVI
What
are the important differences in first principles?
Tracing the
direct line from the 1949 Holy Office Letter to the Prayer Meeting at
Assisi
Page 5
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Drew
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 72
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 Posted:
Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:23 am Post subject:
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Michael
Wilson wrote:
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Drew stated:
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Quote:
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1) The
author of this term is Pastor Wilhelm Schmidt, a Protestant minister
who made the suggestion to Cardinal Augustin
Bea, the ecumenist, modernist biblical scholar, patron of Fr. Annibale Bugnini, and
confessor to Pope Pius XII, who in turn recruited the support of Fr. Ratzinger who then convinced Cardinal Frings to bring it to the Council.
This story has been personally verified by Fr. Franz Schmidberger by contacting Pastor Schmidt. Do you
think Pastor Schmidt considers “subsist” as a term of identity?
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Drew, where did you get
this information on the origin of the "subsist" term?
BTW, I agree with you (and
Cardinal Ratzinger) that there is a
contradiction between the term "Is" and "Subsists
In".
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Michael Wilson:
The information was in an address given by Fr. Franz Schmidberger, First Assistant to the Superior General
of the SSPX, at St. Vincent de Paul Church in Kansas City, Missouri, on
February 22, 2001. The pertinent paragraph is:
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Fr.
schmidberger wrote:
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"If we were to clearly
identify the Catholic Church simpliciter
—that is, just simply —with the Church of Christ, the whole ecumenical
movement would burn out. The Protestants would be angered that the
Catholic Church had defined that their churches were not the Church of
Christ!" And, so, the liberal spirits wanted to find another
notion and another word to give the definition. They got the help they
needed from a German Protestant, Pastor Schmidt, an observer invited by
Cardinal Bea to take part in the Second Vatican Council. And he made
the written proposal that in this definition, "The Church of
Christ is the Catholic Church," the word "is" be
replaced by "subsistit in." He
handed this proposal to the then Fr. Joseph Ratzinger,
who was at this time the Council expert [peritus]
of Cardinal Frings from Cologne, Germany. Fr.
Ratzinger in turn gave the proposal to
Cardinal Frings who presented it before the
Council, and the words "subsistit
in" were incorporated into Lumen Gentium.
So it has its origin from the Protestants. We were made aware of
this fact by a priest from South Tyrol [old Austria, annexed to become
today’s northern Italy —Ed.], who wrote last year saying that he knew
this Protestant pastor, and that he was still living. We asked him to
send us the address. So we wrote to this Protestant pastor, and he
confirmed by a letter of August 3rd that he was the one who handed over
this proposal to Fr. Ratzinger. So we see
that Fr. Ratzinger had taken a very active
role to introduce the words "subsistit in"
and rewrite a very important definition of the Catholic Church.
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The link to the entire address is:
http://www.sspx.org/discussions/fr_schimdbergers_talk.htm
Drew
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